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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 2sense on May 27, 2003, at 16:25:58
I know that someone out there will have an idea ... you all are so smart and supportive ... okay here goes. I am *really* depressed. I have Hashimoto's (causes hypothyroidism), ADHD, atypical anorexia (which is pretty much in check), hit the big 4-0 late 2002, had partial hysterectomy ... not surgical menopause ... but symptoms overlap; i.e., depression, insomnia, moody (not radical, but. Have really good pdoc and therapist. I want to write an autobiography: Pulling the Short Straw for 4 Decades Straight ... 2 teens ... hubby at stressful job/has depression, et. al. & 7 year old ... stay at home ... stopped work w/ bonus baby .... hate it ... I take T4/T3; Ritalin for AD/HD, Wellbutrin (all but T3 on since '98 -- on and off the Wellbutrin). Rx for sleep (Ambien .. more recently Halicon ... don't like either). Here's my quandry: The T3 was added 12/30/02 --> 10 MCG and T4 (Synthroid) was dropped from 112 MCG to 100 MCG. Within 10 days: felt much better, fell asleep on my own, started exercising, all the stress of all those who need mom, etc. didn't bother me ... stopped Ambien, stayed on the T3/T4 doses from 12/30/02, Ritalin/Wellbutrin the same. Early Feb '03 felt really good ... pdoc and I discussed mid Jan '03 and again early Feb '03 all the ins and outs of how I felt better (don't have bipolar ... have been screened alot ...). Then I got the flu 3rd week of Feb. was in bed 2 weeks, and for 4 felt awful ... During the first 10 days husband got flu .... kids sort of 'took over' ... by end of second week couldn't sleep,depressed, etc. Mid March pdoc upped T3 to 20 mcg. he went on vacation and I got no better and decided to go to 15 mcg for 2 weeks -- no better -- he returned we upped it to 20 mcg (was back on the Ambien before increase in T3) ... mid April dropped T3 to 10 mcg, upped T4 to 112 mcg (he dropped to 100 from 112 when T3 first added) ... nothing ... it has been 7 weeks ... tried Effexor 3 days felt different but sexual side effects boom -- Father put me on Soy Leichtin (?sp? Phos... pure .. Dad's got a billion degrees, has N businesses -- one is health thing) high doses, 900 mg 3/day over last 2 weeks double that -- then felt worse ... I'll see pdoc Thursday.
AD's put on rapid weight and/or the sexual side effects. There is an article about Gingko (I posted a question about this .. thanks this is the first I've just said post ... forget wanting to do nothing)after 4 weeks at 240 mg. anorgasm totally reversed. I wonder if you take the GB for 4 weeks at 240 mg./day ... then start the offending AD (eg., Effexor) will there be no sexual side effects from the start.
I am feeling like there isn't an answer ... I have to choose one thing or the other ....blah
Thank you for listening, and helping in advance. Sorry about the length.
2sense
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 27, 2003, at 17:21:48
In reply to Six in one hand and half a dozen in the other ...., posted by 2sense on May 27, 2003, at 16:25:58
I'm assuming you read about the Gingko biloba reversing the inorgasmia, but haven't actually tried it. Sounds like a great idea- and good for you in other ways, too! I think a lot of people here would be interested in knowing if it works.
You mentioned various doses of T3-T4 replacement, but didn't say what your serum TSH, T3 and T4 levels actually are. There have been a number of posts, and a few journal citations, indicating that, while the T3 and T4 levels need to remain within normal limits, the TSH should be at the low end of the range for an anti-depressant benefit. Most say at 0.5 or even a bit lower. Since you need to take it anyway, it might be worthwhile to make sure your TSH is at the optimum level. You may then find that you can do well on a lower dose of anti-depressant medication.
I think you are a new poster; if so, you might want to look back over the posts on natural supplements such as fish oil and magnesium and a range of other things by Larry Hoover and a number of others during the last 6 months or so.. There is a wealth of valuable information there which many of us have found extremely helpful. I'm one of the people who no longer needs an AD (at least for now); TMS helped me a great deal, but I believe taking enough T3-4 to keep my TSH below 0.5, and taking pretty nearly all of the supplements suggested by Larry have helped me stay in remission.
Pfinstegg
Posted by 2sense on May 27, 2003, at 17:31:18
In reply to Re: Six in one hand and half a dozen in the other .... » 2sense, posted by Pfinstegg on May 27, 2003, at 17:21:48
> I'm assuming you read about the Gingko biloba reversing the inorgasmia, but haven't actually tried it. Sounds like a great idea- and good for you in other ways, too! I think a lot of people here would be interested in knowing if it works.
>
> You mentioned various doses of T3-T4 replacement, but didn't say what your serum TSH, T3 and T4 levels actually are. There have been a number of posts, and a few journal citations, indicating that, while the T3 and T4 levels need to remain within normal limits, the TSH should be at the low end of the range for an anti-depressant benefit. Most say at 0.5 or even a bit lower. Since you need to take it anyway, it might be worthwhile to make sure your TSH is at the optimum level. You may then find that you can do well on a lower dose of anti-depressant medication.
>
> I think you are a new poster; if so, you might want to look back over the posts on natural supplements such as fish oil and magnesium and a range of other things by Larry Hoover and a number of others during the last 6 months or so.. There is a wealth of valuable information there which many of us have found extremely helpful. I'm one of the people who no longer needs an AD (at least for now); TMS helped me a great deal, but I believe taking enough T3-4 to keep my TSH below 0.5, and taking pretty nearly all of the supplements suggested by Larry have helped me stay in remission.
>
> PfinsteggThank you very much Pfinstegg. No, not a new poster, just one who isn't used to being depressed at this level. As I mentioned my father has for years known and made use of many supplements/vitamins, etc. Coordinating (he is out of state) his input with the pdoc (who is very, very busy but does :-) answer email) is difficult. I need to get the thyroid levels done -- I'm a bit overwhelmed and discouraged. Like many, I've gotten up and bushed myself off and carried on ... the last 18 months there has been no let up. The U of TX (Austin) has a 'dept' specifically for female sexual dysfnc. and there is also U of CA (SF) ... Thanks again.
2sense
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 27, 2003, at 22:28:21
In reply to Re: Six in one hand and half a dozen in the other .... » 2sense, posted by Pfinstegg on May 27, 2003, at 17:21:48
Having just said on this thread how much your recommendations on supplements have helped me, I'd really like to say to you all directly:- THANKS A MILLION!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 28, 2003, at 8:06:29
In reply to Re: Six in one hand and half a dozen in the other ...., posted by 2sense on May 27, 2003, at 17:31:18
> Thank you very much Pfinstegg. No, not a new poster, just one who isn't used to being depressed at this level. As I mentioned my father has for years known and made use of many supplements/vitamins, etc. Coordinating (he is out of state) his input with the pdoc (who is very, very busy but does :-) answer email) is difficult.
Do you regularly use supplements of any kind? Most supplements have gentle effects which may increase over long-term use. They augment treatment, though they will seldom replace it.
>I need to get the thyroid levels done -- I'm a bit overwhelmed and discouraged. Like many, I've gotten up and bushed myself off and carried on ... the last 18 months there has been no let up. The U of TX (Austin) has a 'dept' specifically for female sexual dysfnc. and there is also U of CA (SF) ... Thanks again.
>
> 2senseThe fact that adding T3 to your drug regimen suggests a defect in the deiodinase enzymes system; one of the four iodines in T4 is removed, making the remaining T3 (there's more than one T3, by the way) physiologically active. The deiodinase enzymes are dependent on selenium intake, and B-vitamin status. I think magnesium might be a cofactor, too (I'd have to look it up).
I know little about your symptoms (and patterns of symptoms), but you can use those bits of information as clues to supplements that might help.
Lar
Posted by 2sense on May 28, 2003, at 9:21:52
In reply to Re: Six in one hand and half a dozen in the other ...., posted by Larry Hoover on May 28, 2003, at 8:06:29
Thank you * ALL * very much. I'll keep reading, researching, etc. You all are always there!
2sense
Posted by noa on May 28, 2003, at 16:44:04
In reply to Re: Six in one hand and half a dozen in the other ...., posted by 2sense on May 27, 2003, at 17:31:18
2sense, did you say you were from Texas?
fwiw--in Dallas-Ft. Worth, there is a doctor who specializes in women's hormonal issues, etc. Dr. Eliz. Lee Vliet, author of "Screaming to be Heard: Hormonal Connections Women Suspect, and Doctors Still Ignore"
It seems like the thyroid autoimmune problem gets exacerbated by stress and illness.
don't know what to tell you about the ADs and SEs, though.
GOod luck.
Posted by 2sense on May 28, 2003, at 17:00:19
In reply to Re: Six in one hand and half a dozen in the other ...., posted by noa on May 28, 2003, at 16:44:04
> 2sense, did you say you were from Texas?
>No ... I'm PA for 7+ years now ... U of TX-Austin has a dept./research regarding women's hormone/AD's/SE, etc.
> fwiw--in Dallas-Ft. Worth, there is a doctor who specializes in women's hormonal issues, etc. Dr. Eliz. Lee Vliet, author of "Screaming to be Heard: Hormonal Connections Women Suspect, and Doctors Still Ignore"
I read: Living Well With Hypothyroidism: What Your Doctor Doesn't Tell You...That You Need to Know -- by Mary Shomon (about.com) and among many items discussed/resources, etc. Screaming To Be Heard.... is one of them. It all gets so complicated ... coordinating doctors, insurance, tests, .... that's why everyone on this board and boards like about.com/thyroid ... are so tremendously helpful.
>
> It seems like the thyroid autoimmune problem gets exacerbated by stress and illness.
>
Oh yes. I moved here 7+ years ago after working for the national (nuclear) labs ... I didn't work directly w/ anything ... at the supercomputer centers -- the last one I had to fight for a dosimeter ?sp? to tired to look it up ... left after 16 months ... had it the last 2 months ... I worked w/ the scientists who worked on the 'stuff' ... then well its like a bad lifetime movice :-) ... the Hashimotos and a slew of health problems, depression, blah, blah, blah .... all seeming connected like one circle w/o an exit ....> don't know what to tell you about the ADs and SEs, though.
I'll put one foot in front of the either and be grateful for other intelligent, articulate, compassionate, and supportive people like yourselves and Dr. Bob's site ... right? Okay one of my teens is waiting to ask me something ... no stress there :-)
2sense
>
> GOod luck.
>
This is the end of the thread.
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