![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 17, 2007, at 10:24:18
Do our neurotransmitters control our thoughts or do our thoughts control our neurotransmitters?
I suppose thoughts are neurotransmitters but you know what I mean.
Is depression simply a lack (or fall in particular ratios) of neurotransmitters?
I suppose its abit of everything.
Meh.
Posted by Phillipa on April 17, 2007, at 10:49:05
In reply to Do our neurotransmitters control our thoughts or t, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 17, 2007, at 10:24:18
Merri well that's a real good question. What do you think the answer is? I think our thoughts control a lot of our actions not sure about the neurotransmitters. I'm not a great scientist like you. Love Phillipa
Posted by rjlockhart on April 17, 2007, at 13:09:39
In reply to Do our neurotransmitters control our thoughts or t, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 17, 2007, at 10:24:18
Wow, i've asked this question alot in the past.
It depends, really if you get yourself going during the day doing stuff, or work, or tasks or anything, you may definelty feel a diffrence.
But, some times i have realized i feel in a bad mood when i have to go to parties and socials and put up a frount, but really im just like ugh inside, thats defintly a chemical depletion or imbalance.
If you stay around the house alot i think that may make you depressed, but it depends, some people enjoy staying at home.
i would say yes they do control the way we feel. Thats why so many times i have heard people say "think happy thoughts" while your depressed, that sometimes makes it worse! because i start feeling all nosticlic (longing for the past) and makes it seem that the time im living in is horrible.
But there an awnser that you could take.
rj
Posted by linkadge on April 17, 2007, at 14:14:38
In reply to Re: Do our neurotransmitters control our thoughts or t » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Phillipa on April 17, 2007, at 10:49:05
Probably both. Although this bind vs. brain type of question has probably plagued people for centuries.
Linkadge
Posted by deniseuk190466 on April 17, 2007, at 16:10:23
In reply to Do our neurotransmitters control our thoughts or t, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 17, 2007, at 10:24:18
I think once you go down low to a certain point then its your neurotransmitters controlling your thoughts. I think if you're not depressed or anxious then you do have control and can have control but when you hit rock bottom something has definately gone awry.
When I take an Antidepressant and get a bad response my thoughts just get worst and worst inspite of my trying to comfort myself, no matter what I tell myself, what happy songs I try and sing. there is this awful deep rooted fear and anxiety that I can't coax myself out of no matter how hard I try, it just seems futile.
Denise
Posted by Ines on April 17, 2007, at 17:08:13
In reply to Do our neurotransmitters control our thoughts or t, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 17, 2007, at 10:24:18
My thoughts, i.e. from my experience, are that you do have a certain amount of control, but it is not sustainable in the long run. I think when you are depressed (and thus presumably have the 'wrong' balance of neurotransmitters) you go into a state of negative cognitive and emotional biases, you tend to focus on negative thoughts, remember negative events, and interpret things in a more negative light- it is possible but tiring and difficult to try and override this. Maybe it takes up too much energy to go against the bias state you are in, and so there is a limit to how long the brain can sustain that for? Also, of course, depression causes lethargy and lack of energy in a lot of people, which doesn't help. It is interesting that there is some evidence to show that animals also become more 'pessimistic' if you house them in an unpredictable or barren environment or treat them with an anxiety causing agent (not a nice thing to do btw).
Ines
Posted by peddidle on April 17, 2007, at 18:25:08
In reply to Do our neurotransmitters control our thoughts or t, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 17, 2007, at 10:24:18
I think it's like the chicken and the egg question--
Low serotonin leads to depression, but depression causes you to be pessimistic and only focus on bad things, which further suppresses serotonin.
Posted by Sebastian on April 17, 2007, at 18:51:15
In reply to Do our neurotransmitters control our thoughts or t, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 17, 2007, at 10:24:18
Yes, I think so, maybe not compleatly. But no med can compleatly. So yes, I would say so.
Posted by notfred on April 18, 2007, at 20:55:15
In reply to Do our neurotransmitters control our thoughts or t, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 17, 2007, at 10:24:18
> Is depression simply a lack (or fall in particular ratios) of neurotransmitters?
>
>Nope, at least not the the context of simple. AD's do not make more NT, they slow the turnover of NT's in some areas of the CNS, keeping the NT's active longer at specific sites. As the CNS is a complex system, if you change one thing the system adjusts upstream and downstream. These adjustments
take some time whereas reuptake ihibition happens at once on starting an AD. Perhaps this is why there can be a 4-8 week lag in the AD really starting to work.This also might account for side effects being bad at first but improving as the system adjusts and seeks a new level. This "adjustment" is theIf you do not get enough vit. C you get scurvy. It is impossible to not get the building blocks for NT's, provided you eat food. I have seen info on people who are very malnourished, such as homeless alcholics, who improve significantly with amino acid supps. So if you totally deprive someone for the building blocks for NT's, the essential amino acids, they get depressed. But amino acids are common in all foods, as protein.
We only talk about NT's because we discovered AD's by accident and reuptake inhibition is the best studied effect they have. Racers requirsive logic. But now we have AD's that are not reuptake inhibitors or do not effect NT's at all. Now we also know some AD's improve the process by which
neurological tissue is made. Anyway, "learning from the meds" is how we have come to understand
a lot of illness. The meds helps, study what the med really does, and develop theory about the illness based on how the med works.That is all very interesting but still we do not know how it really works. These are theories as we have no way to measure NT's in the CNS. And we are no where near understanding how the CNS does its complex functions, like memory and mood, Till the basics are well understood it is hard understand what goes wrong in illness.
AS to your question, "Do our neurotransmitters control our thoughts", I would say no. NT's are
perhaps better thought of as the messengers of thoughts. They are one way your body controls, communicates across, and regulates the CNS. There is more NT in your gut than in your brain, NT's do a lot in your gut. Noradenergic NT is often mentioned in the context of AD's and mood but it also very entwined in all things cardiac. The noradenergic AD's often have cardiac side effects.
So if you were deficient in NT you would be a mess with depression as the least of your problems.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.