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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by odon on March 2, 2009, at 10:01:09
I see all the new information about lyme disease AND similair infections causing mental problems like depression/anxiety etc.--Question if one takes an antibiotic such as doxycycline(or other antibiotic) do mental symptoms get a little worse before they get better?And if mental issues do get a little worse for a few weeks or so is that a good indicator a person has lyme or bartonella or something similair.Thanks in advance for answering,and thankyou to everyone who answered my other question.
Posted by Phillipa on March 2, 2009, at 10:46:45
In reply to Question about antibiotics and mental issues, posted by odon on March 2, 2009, at 10:01:09
I'm confused also has did have active lymes. Phillipa yes been on antibiotics.
Posted by bleauberry on March 2, 2009, at 19:39:20
In reply to Question about antibiotics and mental issues, posted by odon on March 2, 2009, at 10:01:09
Here is a good example to answer your question.
My father last month had an out of control bladder infection. He was given an antibiotic, coincidentally one of the good ones used in Lyme and Lyme-like situations. I warned him to expect a nasty Herx reaction as pathogens are killed and flood him with their toxins and corpses. Well, no Herx reaction. His bladder felt better already in just 2 days. That was a clear indication he had no other hidden infections, only the bladder pathogens, which were promptly flushed out with urine as they died.
Whatever symptoms someone has pre-antibiotic are usually the same symptoms that will get worse when starting an antibiotic. If it is depression, it will likely get worse. If anxiety, it will likely get worse. If it is fatigue, it will likely get worse. Same with pain. Or whatever.
It is probably the toxins of the pathogens themselves causing the symptoms, or the actual physical damage they do, such as burrowing into cells and setting up office within cells. Brain cells. Nervous system cells.
When they are killed in mass, they excrete more toxins and of course their rotting dead corpses cannot all be excreted instantly. All that stuff causes inflammation, including inflammation of the brain. And thus pre-existing symptoms get worse as well as possible new ones.
If this happens, it is actually a good sign, though intensely miserable. The length of the Herx reaction can vary from a couple weeks to a couple months from person to person. On the other side is a new world like they haven't seen in a very long time, a world with minimal or zero of the previous symptoms they were trying to treat.
Psych drugs along the way can be helpful to treat symptoms. Pain killers, anti-inflamatories, benzos, sleep aids, antidepressants, antipsychotics, stimulants...whatever helps with whatever symptoms are there. After treatment is done, those meds are not needed as much, at which time they are stopped completely or whittled down to minimum doses.
After treatment is done, picture a battefield after the war. There is a mess to clean up. Lots of damage was done by the enemy. Sometimes people experience complete cures, other times they need some meds longterm to deal with the remnants of the battlefield.
Sometimes after months the pathogens can regain footing and there can be a relapse, at which time prompt retreatment will knock them down much faster and painless than the first time.
But at least the war is over! The disease has been stopped. Treatment and management becomes so much easier, smoother, and successful.
I am not at all an expert on this stuff, I am just relaying stories I have heard from real patients at other forums as well as a handful of cases my doctor shared with me.
But yes, getting worse at first is by itself diagnostic, and then getting better later removes any lingering doubt.
Posted by Phillipa on March 2, 2009, at 20:42:34
In reply to Re: Question about antibiotics and mental issues, posted by bleauberry on March 2, 2009, at 19:39:20
BB well I guess mine is better than as when take antibiotics not oftern don't experience any of this in fact even in the beginning of treatment The first time with doxycylline the muscle twitching went away. And then the biaxin XL two days after discontinuing it I was at an Island getting shells and felt like a bomb dropped on med felt horrible. The whole time on biaxin felt better? Why??? Love Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on March 8, 2009, at 0:44:17
In reply to Question about antibiotics and mental issues, posted by odon on March 2, 2009, at 10:01:09
> I see all the new information about lyme disease AND similair infections causing mental problems like depression/anxiety etc.--Question if one takes an antibiotic such as doxycycline(or other antibiotic) do mental symptoms get a little worse before they get better?And if mental issues do get a little worse for a few weeks or so is that a good indicator a person has lyme or bartonella or something similair.Thanks in advance for answering,and thankyou to everyone who answered my other question.
There's little point and actually danger from side effects from doxycycline, unless there is actually a western blot test taken first for Lyme disease.Yes, there have been mention of Lyme disease, but if you don't test positive for the various tests (lyme titer, etc), there's no point randomly subjecting the system to antibiotics.
In fact some antibiotics can cause psychiatric problems, such as Biaxin (at least for me personally).
I can't quite parse your message but if you're saying you -do- test positive for Lyme disease, then I would assume a period of antibiotics would be used.Its an individual case issue as to even whether it penetrates the blood brain barrier in spots where it would cause psychiatric issues.
The extensive long term use of antibiotics in Lyme disease is questionable, and also can increase bacterial resistance.
It is not a common infection and is mostly found east of the Appalachians, in the northeast US mostly.
-- Jay
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