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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BrainDamage on April 2, 2011, at 17:15:24
Ok, this may seem an odd question, but bare with me......
I have noticed that whenever I take a supplement or drug that increases my Acetyl-choline levels I rapidly become Very depressed & Apathetic.
Therefor I would like to try & lower my Acetyl-choline levels.
Does anyone have any idea how to do this?I could try Anti-colligenics, but they are hard for me to get hold of & I don't like the sound of the side effects.
Canniboids lower Acetyl-choline levels, and they greatly help my anxiety & depression
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 2, 2011, at 17:46:38
In reply to How do I Decrease Acetylcholine Levels?, posted by BrainDamage on April 2, 2011, at 17:15:24
There are some drugs used in Parkinson's disease that are pretty clean anticholinergics, but they all require a prescription.
Posted by desolationrower on April 3, 2011, at 0:33:04
In reply to How do I Decrease Acetylcholine Levels?, posted by BrainDamage on April 2, 2011, at 17:15:24
anticholinergics are easy to get ahold of.
any oldschool antihistamine, like diphenhydramine (generic of benedryl: just look for atomic pink pills)
or switch your drug to an tertiary tca
or if your doc doesn't like that, and you are on an ssri: switch to paroxatine
-d/r
Posted by BrainDamage on April 3, 2011, at 3:54:55
In reply to Re: How do I Decrease Acetylcholine Levels?, posted by mtdewcmu on April 2, 2011, at 17:46:38
> There are some drugs used in Parkinson's disease that are pretty clean anticholinergics
OK, what drugs are clean Anticholigenics?
I'm intrigued; I couldn't find any on Wiki, although I didn't look very hard....
In response to Desolationrower-I know what old school antihistamines are Anticolligenice
I'm just trying to minimize Antihistamine effects, I want to reduce Acytlcholine, nothing else.......
Posted by BrainDamage on April 3, 2011, at 4:19:27
In reply to mtdewcmu-Clean Anticholigenics?, posted by BrainDamage on April 3, 2011, at 3:54:55
Sorry, I forgot tick the "Notify me of late follow-ups to this thread"-option
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 3, 2011, at 16:34:44
In reply to clean anticholinergics?, posted by BrainDamage on April 3, 2011, at 4:19:27
> Sorry, I forgot tick the "Notify me of late follow-ups to this thread"-option
Like Artane (trihexyphenidyl) or biperiden.
Posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2011, at 2:01:06
In reply to Re: clean anticholinergics?, posted by mtdewcmu on April 3, 2011, at 16:34:44
"clean Anticholigenics"
haha. most any drug that gets called dirty is an anticholingeric.
anyway, i don't know the answer. if i were willing to spend a few hours, i'd crossreference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimuscarinic with http://kidb.cwru.edu/pdsp.php
to find the drug with the least interaction with what you want.
but the easiest way, is switch what AD you are on right now. if you aren't taking one, just go ask a doc for one of the secondary TCAs like amytriptaline.-d/r
Posted by bleauberry on April 5, 2011, at 4:44:22
In reply to How do I Decrease Acetylcholine Levels?, posted by BrainDamage on April 2, 2011, at 17:15:24
The brain is much too complicated and intertwined to make a general assumption that if cholinergic things make you feel worse then you need something anticholinergic. It just isn't that simple or straight forward. But if you want to try it, the TCAs have potent anticholinergic action.
Serotonin meds, 5htp, anything serotonin related makes me feel really bad. But does that mean I need less serotonin? No. I have tried anti-serotonin strategies and it was just as lousy. The problem is something else....the serotonin is fine....changing it in any way throws the balance of other things out off....it's that off-balance that makes me feel bad, not the serotonin itself. Just a rough example to attempt to illustrate the point.
I guess we all have to experiment on our own to find out what does what. Nothing on paper will do it, and no one else's experience will do it. It is a personal journey that will not be like anyone else's. So, you gotta do what you think you gotta do and see what happens. That's the only way to make progress. We have to purposely rule things in and rule things out. If the theory that your cholinergic system is too high is correct, then the next step is to rule it in as true or rule it out as false. Either way, it will take experimenting to find out.
Posted by BrainDamage on April 5, 2011, at 9:52:23
In reply to Re: How do I Decrease Acetylcholine Levels?, posted by bleauberry on April 5, 2011, at 4:44:22
Firstly a Thank You to everyone who posted!
In response to Blueberry's point:
You do have a good point about not jumping to conclusions about whats going on in "The Brain", based on one or two response(s) to Meds/Supplements.
It is interesting that you respond badly to things that increase Serotonin levels.
Having said that there is a great deal of Evidence that Excess Acetyl-choline is implicated in mood & neurological disorders.
For example Parkinson's patients have increased Acetyl-choline levels
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 5, 2011, at 11:15:43
In reply to Re: How do I Decrease Acetylcholine Levels?, posted by BrainDamage on April 5, 2011, at 9:52:23
> Having said that there is a great deal of Evidence that Excess Acetyl-choline is implicated in mood & neurological disorders.
> For example Parkinson's patients have increased Acetyl-choline levelsIf pure anticholinergics were useful in psychiatry, they would most likely already be in use.
Posted by BrainDamage on April 5, 2011, at 15:08:10
In reply to Re: How do I Decrease Acetylcholine Levels?, posted by mtdewcmu on April 5, 2011, at 11:15:43
I believe that some people get relief with Anti-Colligenics
I think that part of the problem is that current Anti-Coligenics are very dirty drugs & they need to be more selective in their action
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 11, 2011, at 12:04:10
In reply to Re: clean anticholinergics?, posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2011, at 2:01:06
I forgot benztropine (Cogentin), which is a popular one.
This is the end of the thread.
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