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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fallsfall on July 24, 2003, at 16:10:02
I think that I have expressed my opinion before that therapists shouldn't have lives and shouldn't take vacations. My therapist said he was going anyway - and he's taking 2 weeks! He's going sailing (like in the ocean, I think).
Before the last couple of days I wasn't feeling too bad about his vacation. But it has been hard recently and I might feel better having something set up. I'm sure that my old group therapist would see me (even though I didn't pick her to be my new permanent therapist).
He said that sometimes he will contact patients while he is on vacation, and that we might want to do that this year. What do you guys think of this? My initial feeling is that there is no way that I am going to disrupt his vacation. He really does deserve to get away and spend time with his family. But he would prefer this to me seeing someone else while he is gone. I think that he is hoping that things will be OK, and that if I have an appointment with someone that I will keep it even if I don't need it (she does have a sand table...).
This is SO different from how my old therapist was. What is "normal"?
Posted by Dinah on July 24, 2003, at 16:21:53
In reply to Therapist Vacations, posted by fallsfall on July 24, 2003, at 16:10:02
My therapist has a cell phone that he uses for client calls. He's also given me the number of the cell phone he uses when he's out of town. He checks the cell phone even when he's on vacation. He always tells me to feel free to call him, even when he's on vacation. With very few exceptions, like when his mother was sick and then died, on his honeymoon, and when he was in Europe on business (because of the time difference and roaming charges I guess).
He too prefers me to do this rather than see someone in his absence. Of course, the result is that I don't call him because it doesn't feel ok to do it. And on the rare occasion I have called him when he was out of town (on business as it happened), when my best friend died suddenly, it was extremely unhelpful and awkward.
So I think the arrangement is not good for me. I'd rather have someone I can use as a backup when he's gone rather than rely on phone calls, even if he is willing to take them. But when he was ready to give in and arrange a backup of his choosing, I changed my mind about wanting one. Now I want one again. I'm just weird.
On the plus side, he is rarely gone longer than a week, maybe a week and a day or two. And the longer times were business related. He appears to like more frequent vacations of shorter duration, thank heavens.
Posted by Morgen on July 24, 2003, at 22:16:41
In reply to Re: Therapist Vacations » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on July 24, 2003, at 16:21:53
That seems kind of sweet to me that your therapists don't want you to use a substitute. Have they talked to you about why?
Morgenada
Posted by Dinah on July 24, 2003, at 22:49:27
In reply to Re: Therapist Vacations, posted by Morgen on July 24, 2003, at 22:16:41
Yeah, he's afraid I want to dilute the transference, and reduce my dependency on him by inserting another therapist in the picture. He thinks that if I indulge my desire to do that, it will weaken our therapeutic relationship.
He's right in that I have been (and still am sometimes) afraid of being too dependent on him, and I'd rather have two therapists lined up in case anything happened where he'd have to fire me or something. But I'm still not sure that's a bad thing...
Or maybe he's afraid I'll like the other therapist better, or complain about him to the other therapist or something. I do complain to him about the other mental health providers I've seen. But I don't need another therapist to complain to! I've got you guys! (big grin)
Posted by fallsfall on July 25, 2003, at 0:21:25
In reply to Re: Therapist Vacations, posted by Morgen on July 24, 2003, at 22:16:41
He's brand new to me. He asked how I handled vacations with my previous therapist (I either saw the therapist for a group I was in, or I was doing well enough to just make it until she came back - but she never left for more than a week - he's going for 2). Then he said that he sometimes does the telephone thing and that we should consider that. So he never said why - just that he prefers the telephone thing. I'll ask him the next time I see him - I want to know, too.
Posted by fallsfall on July 25, 2003, at 2:06:46
In reply to Re: Therapist Vacations, posted by Dinah on July 24, 2003, at 22:49:27
Some number of years ago, when I was at the height of my workaholicism, I went on vacation with my family to a cottage on a beach. Traditionally, I would read on the beach while the kids swam. This year my reading book was a book on Management Styles. When I returned to work I wondered why I didn't feel refreshed. Of course, the answer was that I hadn't taken a vacation. I had just moved my job to the beach.
So my hesitency to talk to my therapist while he is on vacation is two-fold. I don't want to intrude on his rest and relaxation (and if I were a therapist, I would need some of that), and I don't want to encourage him to be a workaholic.
I guess I have to talk to him about it...
Your point about not calling even though you can is a problem, too. With my old therapist I basically couldn't call unless I was hospital material. Aren't there things to be said for calling before you get that far gone?
Posted by Dinah on July 25, 2003, at 8:03:39
In reply to Re: Therapist Vacations » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on July 25, 2003, at 2:06:46
Now mind you, I have terrible problems calling him on vacation. Bad problems calling him while he's at work out of town. Problems calling him after hours or on the weekend. But no problems calling him any other time.
I don't think he thinks badly of me for it. He used to actively encourage me to call him when I felt bad rather than to let it build up until it was a real problem. He seems to subscribe to the DBT idea (although he's never heard of DBT) that it's better to encourage unstable types like me to call *before* there's an emergency. And "call me if you need to." had become part of our standard closing of the session. If he doesn't happen to say it, I assume it's because there's a reason he doesn't want to be called.
The net result of his encouragement to call him if I need to, and end of session reminders to call him if I need to is fewer calls to him. Somehow if I know I *can*, I don't *need to* as much. And there is less acting out. The same goes about vacation. If he tells me I can call, I get less anxious and don't need to call as much (coupled with my extreme reluctance to bother him on family time).
While every bit of what I just said is true, it's still a problem and if I had a therapist I already saw in his absence I would be reluctant to give that up. He's really not good over the phone. (REALLY!!!) And there's the reluctance to bother him.
But your new therapist may feel as strongly as mine does about transference contamination and may really really not want you to call anyone else. I guess it's best to talk the whole thing out with him. I'm leaning to talking about asking for a backup again, next time I'm up for tense feelings anyway.
Posted by Morgen on July 26, 2003, at 3:15:37
In reply to Re: Therapist Vacations » Morgen, posted by fallsfall on July 25, 2003, at 0:21:25
Its funny, one of the articles I posted under the "Transference Crisis" thread talks about how some psychologists try to get you to fall in love with them. That seems horrible to me. So I'm interested in what your therapist says about why he doesn't use subs.
The article I mention in my other link is pretty funny at points. Somewhere in there it says "Please don't kill yourself or someone else because of transference from your childhood." He also mentioned that he doesn't adhere to the encouraging-transference idea because he doesn't need a bigger ego than he already has.
Morgen
Posted by fallsfall on July 29, 2003, at 22:52:57
In reply to Re: Therapist Vacations » fallsfall, posted by Morgen on July 26, 2003, at 3:15:37
I talked to my therapist today about his vacation. He said nothing about talking with me himself. He mentioned that the woman in the next office can cover for him, and asked if I thought that would be helpful. I told him that if were to talk with someone else, that I would rather see my old group therapist. So, if she is going to be working those two weeks I will call her if I am having a really hard time. In the meantime, he and I will work on strategies for me to survive. The only thing I can see as a reason that he changed his mind is that I am in a very different place than I was when we talked about the phone calls.
I asked if he would give me a note that says that he isn't mad at me (this is what I obsess about) and that he thinks the future is optimistic for us to work together. I felt that I needed something concrete for the times when I would fall apart, sure that he was angry with me. He said no. But he said that he would call and leave me a message on my answering machine. That should do it.
I asked about books. He was very leary - "Why do you want me to recommend books?". He was concerned that if he recommended a book and it didn't work for me that there would be a problem. I told him that I get books from the University library, sort of at random. I thought if he recommended something that it might have a little more relevance. He gave me one title (a 1950s book that a friend of his wrote) and one author. That's a start. He asked what I have read - I have no idea what the titles are!! I gave him a little of the one I'm reading now (my memory is just awful), but couldn't remember the other one I've read that he would be interested in. Maybe he's starting to understand that I really can't remember anything.
But the really good news is that his vacation is supposed to be next week and the week after. I saw him today (Tuesday), and I'll see him Friday, and he's not actually leaving right away, so I can see him Monday, too. So it is more like a week and a half.
We had a productive discussion about why I freak out when my therapists are less than ecstatic about me. It will be a while before I really get it, but I think that if anyone can get me to see this stuff it is him.
Posted by Dinah on July 30, 2003, at 4:06:34
In reply to Re: Therapist Vacations, posted by fallsfall on July 29, 2003, at 22:52:57
I'm glad you reached a compromise that satisfied both of you, Fallsfall. Did he say what the difference to him is between a letter and a phone message?
I'm proud of you for asking for what you needed. My therapist and I had a rotten session Monday, over a misunderstanding arising from my asking once for something and when he didn't answer, assuming that it was something I shouldn't have asked for. Then I shut down completely. We finally found out he just hadn't heard my request for reassurance. But it led to a productive (or it will probably be productive someday) discussion of my reluctance to ask for what I need in my intense fear of being told no. He said he'd rather I ask than just never get what I wanted for fear of rejection.
We did some tying in of that to my childhood history. But the odd thing is that my son, who to my knowledge has not had an invalidating background, is even worse about this than I am. For the longest time, he wouldn't tell us what he wanted for breakfast, for example, until we had told him what he could have. Because asking for cheerios and being told no was worse than not having any chance of getting cheerios. He's gotten better, and we've been congratulating ourselves in our great parenting. But the truth is that he's just figured out how to ask for things he's positive he can get. Mom, may I have three skittles and a hershey's kiss for my dessert? Very reasonable requests. Maybe there's just a gene out there relating to fear of rejection.
All apropos of nothing except my admiration that you were able to ask for what you wanted. :)
This is the end of the thread.
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